This is so good, though I have blessedly seen neither movie. The desire to be "subversive" so often is a mask for a particular type of male ugliness towards women
I’ve done my “old guy” rant on both of these pictures, and I much prefer “500 Days of Summer” despite my mixed feelings on the Summer character. I’ve been Tom in a couple of relationships and while it’s a painful lesson to learn, setting and managing expectations is a life skill best acquired early in life. This is the hopeful message of the film. That and the chance that there are always Autumns (and Toms) in the world for us to discover if we carry on.
On the flatness of Summer’s character, I do think the point is that he projects everything on to her and never knows or understands her. He is in love with the idea of her. I think women have often felt that way. Here is a totally nice guy, I could see falling in love with, but instead he’s in love with an idea of me, not actually me. It’s obvious in the falseness of his playful behavior he is trying to be in a rom com, but doesn’t actually know anything about how to love someone because he is also so totally without self-knowledge. He cares so much about how he’s perceived, but it doesn’t come from self-knowledge or authenticity, but from neurotic and unacknowledged selfishness. I felt frustrated at not knowing Summer, but I think that was good. I think that mirrored her own frustration at not being understood. I identified with both characters, which is why I really thought it was a terribly sad movie. I think it is about how two imperfect people hurt each other with absolutely no malice or ill intent, but through lack of self knowledge.
Thanks for making me think about why this movie resonated so much with me at the time.
I identified with both characters at different points as well! I just personally find it hard to subscribe to the John Green Defense (though John Green seems like a nice guy in real life and I’ve enjoyed other aspects of his writing) because to me it feels like an excuse to continue writing lackluster women while maintaining that that’s what you meant to do all along. I don’t fully trust Scott Neustadter’s motivations. But I did enjoy the movie for many of the reasons you stated.
I haven’t seen the full movie, just bits and pieces, but this is very similar to the impression I got. I’m surprised that it’s just seen as bashing women, because it seems clear that Tom needs to buckle down and grow up. Having a guy realizing his need for maturity seems like a great premise.
Summer not being perfect either actually helps me want to see the full movie. She’s not an angel that is treated badly. Tom needs to know how to handle relationships with imperfect people and each needs to help the other grow.
I honestly think relationships in movies will often just be weird, because so many situations just don’t have standards or a purpose for the relationship.
This was a fantastic essay, I honestly could have read your thoughts on these films for hours. 500 Days of Summer is (unfortunately) a guilty pleasure of mine, one I rewatch quite often, but every point you made was so on the nose (though I’d never noticed the blue rule with Summer’s outfits!)
I haven’t rewatched My Best Friend’s Wedding in YEARS, but after reading this, I’m going to rewatch this week and see if my opinions are still the same. I haven’t watched it in over a decade, and I remember my teenage self being appalled and so confused by the evil character of Michael. Excited to rewatch both these films with this essay in mind! Thank you for sharing such an entertaining, well thought out piece <3 I loved it
This is so good, though I have blessedly seen neither movie. The desire to be "subversive" so often is a mask for a particular type of male ugliness towards women
It’s interesting how “let’s do something different” results in bashing women which is one of the least different things a man can do, really
I’ve done my “old guy” rant on both of these pictures, and I much prefer “500 Days of Summer” despite my mixed feelings on the Summer character. I’ve been Tom in a couple of relationships and while it’s a painful lesson to learn, setting and managing expectations is a life skill best acquired early in life. This is the hopeful message of the film. That and the chance that there are always Autumns (and Toms) in the world for us to discover if we carry on.
I definitely think 500 days is more successful and self-aware as a film — the writing just lets it down in parts
On the flatness of Summer’s character, I do think the point is that he projects everything on to her and never knows or understands her. He is in love with the idea of her. I think women have often felt that way. Here is a totally nice guy, I could see falling in love with, but instead he’s in love with an idea of me, not actually me. It’s obvious in the falseness of his playful behavior he is trying to be in a rom com, but doesn’t actually know anything about how to love someone because he is also so totally without self-knowledge. He cares so much about how he’s perceived, but it doesn’t come from self-knowledge or authenticity, but from neurotic and unacknowledged selfishness. I felt frustrated at not knowing Summer, but I think that was good. I think that mirrored her own frustration at not being understood. I identified with both characters, which is why I really thought it was a terribly sad movie. I think it is about how two imperfect people hurt each other with absolutely no malice or ill intent, but through lack of self knowledge.
Thanks for making me think about why this movie resonated so much with me at the time.
I identified with both characters at different points as well! I just personally find it hard to subscribe to the John Green Defense (though John Green seems like a nice guy in real life and I’ve enjoyed other aspects of his writing) because to me it feels like an excuse to continue writing lackluster women while maintaining that that’s what you meant to do all along. I don’t fully trust Scott Neustadter’s motivations. But I did enjoy the movie for many of the reasons you stated.
I haven’t seen the full movie, just bits and pieces, but this is very similar to the impression I got. I’m surprised that it’s just seen as bashing women, because it seems clear that Tom needs to buckle down and grow up. Having a guy realizing his need for maturity seems like a great premise.
Summer not being perfect either actually helps me want to see the full movie. She’s not an angel that is treated badly. Tom needs to know how to handle relationships with imperfect people and each needs to help the other grow.
I honestly think relationships in movies will often just be weird, because so many situations just don’t have standards or a purpose for the relationship.
This was a fantastic essay, I honestly could have read your thoughts on these films for hours. 500 Days of Summer is (unfortunately) a guilty pleasure of mine, one I rewatch quite often, but every point you made was so on the nose (though I’d never noticed the blue rule with Summer’s outfits!)
I haven’t rewatched My Best Friend’s Wedding in YEARS, but after reading this, I’m going to rewatch this week and see if my opinions are still the same. I haven’t watched it in over a decade, and I remember my teenage self being appalled and so confused by the evil character of Michael. Excited to rewatch both these films with this essay in mind! Thank you for sharing such an entertaining, well thought out piece <3 I loved it
Loved this!